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 Post subject: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:07 am 
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Problem: In the English version all the dialogues end correctly. But in the Spanish version and in mods when some soldiers speak their dialogues (For example: "Wow, where did that boom came from") the character's animation keeps running for a short delay after the sound has finished. Which doesn't happen in the English version.

Any ideas on how does the trick work?

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Id guess it would be that the sound file has empty sound at the end (As in the recording lasts longer than the guys speach). Its not likely to be something with the coding of OW or it would effect every language.

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:41 pm 
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stucuk wrote:
Id guess it would be that the sound file has empty sound at the end.


I'd wish it was that simple (unless it is and I haven't noticed). I've been doing many tests to see if there is a problem with the sound file, and there is one: It's length. (In some cases. It applies to short lines of text, but larger always have delay.)

You see... I've tested with this line of dialogue:

"Squadron! ATTEN-TION!"

I've created a sine-wave waveform and made it last an exact amount of time, then saved the file and tested on editor to see if there is any delay.
My results for this specific line are:

1 sec (Apparently works); 2 sec (Apparently works); 3 secs (Works); 4 sec (Works); 5 secs (Works); 6 secs (Works); 7 sec (Works); 7,5 sec (Doesn't work); 8 sec (Doesn't work).

I've also tested with the following line, which is longer than the previous one:

"The moustache gives me luck like this, soldier! It has saved my life many times! Are you ready for your training, soldier?"

3 sec, 4 secs, 5 sec, 6 sec (Apparently works). At 7 seconds it works. And on 7,5 sec and further (8 secs, for example) it doesn't work.

From what I can see the problem isn't if there is a "small silence" at the end. For example this:

Image

That is the original waveform (Not the sine-wave test waveform) of the first line I tried: "Squadron! ATTEN-TION!"
It works perfectly without any delay. As you can see it lasts 2,35 sec which is one of the "acceptable" lengths for the dialogue according to my "research".

Now, try to use a dialog like THIS:

Image

That text if measured with a waveform that lasts just 7 seconds (Acceptable limit) will have delay. Note: when I say waveform I mean the entire sound file length, I tested with a pure waveform without any silences, all constant from beginning to end.
For this line you'll need about 15 seconds (I "recorded" Powell's voice with my sound program using "Stereo Mix" input and his recording lasted around 15 seconds) of recording. In a regular mod it will have delay! Unlike in the "original" game! (I've taken this dialog from Mission Am 03).

But that's not all!!

Look at this line of dialogue: "Sir! May I ask why everybody has been cut their hair and is bald unlike me?"

Pretty "short", isn't it? - The "waveform" lasts 5,23 seconds. But sadly the dialog has delay. Not a good suprise. This makes me think there is something "else" that is producing this unwanted delay.

I've tried to find a simple mathematical calculation to see what is the relation, but I didn't reach any representative result.

I've also tried leaving the dialogue without sound, which is removing the .Wav file from the directory, and checking how long did OW made the dialog line last in seconds. Then, after measuring, I used the same value with a generated waveform and put the sound in the directory and tested. Delay was present.

I think it should be healthy to say a conclusion (But not solution, since I haven't found one, yet.) so here it goes:

My conclusion is that very short texts that are like "Sir yes sir!" or "Affirmative, sir!" or "Form up!" etc. can last up to 7 seconds without any delay. But longer texts like "Very well, soldiers! We are going to proceed with the Training now!" have delay even if they last less than 7 seconds.

Therefore more research is required to find a proper solution. I hope my work and results are of enough motivation to make someone finish what I tried to research, or at least bring the rest of the results needed to arrive to a solution.

Edit: It's very nice to see how in the original game the mission's dialogues have no delay. No matter how long or short they are.

Edit 2: The attachment has my results and math trials.


Attachments:
Calculations Dialogs delay.rar [4.23 KiB]
Downloaded 110 times

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:06 pm 
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You seem to be right gwren1. Funny... I've never noticed before.
Can have something to do with the files being in 32 bit format? Doesn't the game actually require 16 bit? I can't get my sound editor to convert it - perhaps you can.

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:18 pm 
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Oh you made me remember about that. Yes, that's one of the things I've tried when I did the tests. It is still the same. Double-checked and no luck with that. Thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Edit: Stucuk, is it possible for you to see now that you have the files from Altar and check the Audio properties of one of the English dialog files? (A long one, like more than 10 seconds long would be best) For example this one: 03_1b-Pow-3.wav (Found in American Mission 03).

Or even better, can you post it here in a RAR file or through speedyshare so I can check it myself?

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:34 am 
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I don't have the sounds. As far as i understand sounds are meant to be 22.050 and mono.

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:00 am 
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Tried with those and it still has delay. It's strange that in other languages like Spanish it also has delay... I'm sure there's something out there that is producing this effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:17 pm 
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If you are using Spanish Text and an English sound file then it may not work as expected (As it may trick the system into thinking there is no sound file and thus it may make up the length of time based on the amount of characters in the text).

But Spanish Text + Spanish Sound File should be the same as English Text + English Sound File.

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:57 pm 
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stucuk wrote:
But Spanish Text + Spanish Sound File should be the same as English Text + English Sound File.


That's exactly what I mean and can't understand! I tried the Spanish version and saw those delays!

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:09 pm 
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I've been examining some sounds that I was able to export with the Pak Viewer. Located in Effects\Vehicles\AM\ there is a sound file called "16_3-Cyrus-JMM-1" which is a working dialogue, I think that one wasn't used in the game, but it's still helpful. The properties of it are the following:
-Mono, 22050 Hz
-32 bits float

A technical detail is that it looks like if the waveform has been normalized, because most of the volumes are around the same level. And the sound is amplified to it's maximum peak.

Now there's something particular that this has and dialog-sounds of mods don't do, and it's that this example dialog sound as well as the other sounds in the folder I specified before (And I believe in the other sound folders as well) have a "spike" wave at the beginning (Triangle wave pointing down), which produces a "clip" sound or something like that, don't know how to call it. Could this very small detail make any difference? I always wondered if the "spike" sounds had any purpuose related to code or something like that, you know as a reference mark.

Edit: Okay I tried putting the same "Inverted triangle wave" and if the sound file is stereo then the spike is heard in-game, but if the audio file is mono the spike sound isn't heard in-game. But that doesn't solve the delay.

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 Post subject: Re: Dialogues delay
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:43 pm 
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The spike could have been produced by the equipment Altar used to make the sound files so it's not deliberately there. Anyway as you say it doesn't seem to have any effect on the delay.

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